Go Back   PhotographyCorner.com Forums > Photo Sharing Corner > Places

Welcome to the PhotographyCorner.com Forums.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, photographs and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), vote on contests like the Photograph of the Month and Contest Corner Challenges, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support.

Archive Suite top banner


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #51    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 07:58 PM
tom foley tom foley is offline
Elite Member
Hi all

This is great. This is the best the corner has ever been for me. I love this kind of discussion, and I think we're all making significant distinctions and choices about how we want to work.

Anyway, going on: there was another piece I wrote in Sivaram's thread. Kara had disagreed with my contention that stiched photography could not be done in a traditional darkroom.

This is what I wrote in response:

Hi Kara,

Yes, you have a point. Yes, there are instances when photographic images were combined in various ways in the darkroom, that challenge my contention that "digital manipulation" is beyond the scope of the word "photography."

If I may refine my point: it is not that these manipulations cannot be done in the darkroom, but that it was so difficult and so rare, that it did not alter the general understanding of what photography was, and what it could and could not do.

The difference with digital manipulation is that it is not difficult and it is not rare. In fact, it is common, it is ubiquitous, it is everywhere, it is all over, it is usual. It is nearly to the point that it is expected that just about any "photograph" we see has been so manipulated, (if we insist on using that word, which I feel is inappropriate).

There are certain points in the history of making visual artifacts, where the changes were so profound, that the language used to designate the art had to change. When did "drawing" become "photography?" for example. And would it be appropriate for photographers to call their art "drawing?"

Artists, or draftsmen, have been using the "camera obscura"for centuries. (I'm sure you know what this is, but just in case: if you go into a very dark room on a very bright day, and punch a small hole into the wall, you will see an image projected upside down on the opposite wall. Centuries ago, artists had portable tents, that were, in practice, a very dark room with a small hole in the wall. The artist would then trace the image onto paper or a canvas). Daquerre, in the mid-19th century figured out how to use this principle, and to photochemically fix the image. And photography was born.

Would it be appropriate, would it be accurate, would it be fair to the centuries of drawing and painting that had come before, to call this new photo-chemically fixed image a "drawing," or a "painting?" No. I don't think so.

A new term was needed. The break between drawing and this new thing was too profound. After a number of decades, I don't know exactly when, the word "photography" was coined.

It seems to me that we are at a similar point in the history of making visual artifacts. The difference between "photography" and this new thing, "digital manipulation," is too profound. And is it appropriate, is it accurate, is it fair to the century and one-half of photography that has come before, to call this new digitally manipulated image a "photograph?"

Tom
__________________
Freedom has no greater enemies than those who lie in its name.
  #52    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 08:09 PM
marsha's Avatar
marsha marsha is offline
Banned
Bronze Commitment Award: This award is given to those who have shown great community dedication & commitment and have over 1,000 posts. - Issue reasonContest Corner Challenge Winner: This award is given to the photographer who wins a Contest Corner Challenge. - Issue reason
what makes a drawing a drawing is the tools used to create them. In that case, pencil or charcoal or pastels.
The tool in photography is the camera, and with digital, it's still a camera but we've added something. I wouldnt' say it's product isn't called a photograph, but it definately is different from the film based cameras. Though, you can tell a difference from a drawing to a photograph, most people cannot tell the difference between digital and film (by this i mean the public, not the discerning artists who nitpick everything to pieces n )
I still say it's a photograph, but was it acheived in a different manner? absolutely.
  #53    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 09:53 PM
midnitejam midnitejam is offline
Junior VIP Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsha
what makes a drawing a drawing is the tools used to create them. In that case, pencil or charcoal or pastels.
The tool in photography is the camera, and with digital, it's still a camera but we've added something. I wouldnt' say it's product isn't called a photograph, but it definately is different from the film based cameras. Though, you can tell a difference from a drawing to a photograph, most people cannot tell the difference between digital and film (by this i mean the public, not the discerning artists who nitpick everything to pieces n )
I still say it's a photograph, but was it acheived in a different manner? absolutely.
Marsha, "I will fly wingman with you, anytime"--TOP GUN, staring Tom Cruise.
__________________
Midnitejam-

My Photos Are OK to Edit--Please, show me how the pros do it.
Sponsors
  #54    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 10:00 PM
marsha's Avatar
marsha marsha is offline
Banned
Bronze Commitment Award: This award is given to those who have shown great community dedication & commitment and have over 1,000 posts. - Issue reasonContest Corner Challenge Winner: This award is given to the photographer who wins a Contest Corner Challenge. - Issue reason
MJ, likewise! you just say when!
  #55    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 10:01 PM
kixphotography's Avatar
kixphotography kixphotography is offline
Premiere Member
Contributor Award: This award is given to those who contribute either an article for the resources section, or contribute to the community in another exemplary way. - Issue reasonContributor Award: This award is given to those who contribute either an article for the resources section, or contribute to the community in another exemplary way. - Issue reasonSilver Commitment Award: This award is given to those who have shown great community dedication & commitment and have over 2,000 posts. - Issue reasonBronze Commitment Award: This award is given to those who have shown great community dedication & commitment and have over 1,000 posts. - Issue reason
It's kind of weird how they coined the term photography.

Considering its meaning, 'Painter of light'.
__________________
http://pbandjphotography.com
  #56    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Ski's Avatar
Ski Ski is offline
Digital Diva
Contributor Award: This award is given to those who contribute either an article for the resources section, or contribute to the community in another exemplary way. - Issue reasonPhotograph of the Month Winner: This award is given to the photographer who wins a Photograph of the Month Contest. - Issue reason
Quote:
I wouldn't say so either Ski. Back to what Tim said wouldn't this itself classify under typical darkroom stuff you could have done there?
I'm not sure hun. I've done black & white d&p so do know it could've been achieved in mono processing, but it's a colour shot and I know nothing about that process and what's possible or not with it.

I think the point you raised - "how de we define editing?" - is very pertinent. Maybe some recognized authority should come up with a definition!

Like Midnite, I also enjoy using PS... not nearly as much as actually getting the shots... but nevertheless I enjoy very much.

I can see Tom's point that perhaps digitally altered images can't strictly be called photography, but it surely depends on the degree of manipulation involved. Again as Kix said - who defines what level of editing changes a photograph into digital art? I guess maybe that'll always be down to personal opinon!
  #57    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 11:25 PM
tom foley tom foley is offline
Elite Member
Hi

I'm trying to winnow my point of view down to the fewest words possible. At this point, it goes something like this:

If both photography and digital art are to be "honest" with their viewers, they must acknowledge their processes. How do they achieve what they achieve?

"Honesty." This seems to be the crux of the discussion. And it involves some weighty questions, like: is honesty in art a good thing? Or is art somehow a slight of hand process? Is art inherantly dishonest?

And if the end product of digital art, is that it "looks like" a photograph, then where is digital art in terms of honesty?

Tom
__________________
Freedom has no greater enemies than those who lie in its name.
  #58    Top
Old December 9th, 2004, 11:29 PM
marsha's Avatar
marsha marsha is offline
Banned
Bronze Commitment Award: This award is given to those who have shown great community dedication & commitment and have over 1,000 posts. - Issue reasonContest Corner Challenge Winner: This award is given to the photographer who wins a Contest Corner Challenge. - Issue reason
my few and simple words:

we could go around in circle for days (like we are) and get no where.
Art is art, it's in the eye of the beholder, and the client paying the cash!
end of story.
who cares anymore?
Reply
Go Back   PhotographyCorner.com Forums > Photo Sharing Corner > Places




Bookmarks

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
amateur photographer looking to expand business photographic Memories Member Introductions 13 June 16th, 2009 09:05 PM
Amateur photographer...interesting story! Eagle17 Member Introductions 11 May 25th, 2006 09:46 AM
Very amateur photographer here! Zatoichi Member Introductions 11 December 3rd, 2005 01:35 PM
Hi Im a very new amateur photographer jasonclark Places 12 July 5th, 2005 05:15 AM
African Wildlife Amateur Photographer owen Member Introductions 12 May 1st, 2005 06:39 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.