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Old March 18th, 2012, 08:44 PM
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Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

My local camera club is facing this topic for our competitions. We have a member that has been entering images of flowers taken with a scanner for our digital competitions. We are going to vote on the legality or maybe morality of entering such images into a "Camera Club" competition.


I expect there might be some intelligent opinions concerning this issue here at the forum. If you decide to chime in with either YES or NO to begin your response.

I'm am dead set against it, but I'm only the President of this club. We have 17 voting members. One of them is the lady whom is entering the images and another is her husband.

I would sincerely appreciate an and all feedback and votes either way.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 11:19 PM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

Yes you should allow it. I think if you did not set guidelines on how the image is made, you are forced to accept what she offers. A scanner is a type of digital image maker, is it not?
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Old March 19th, 2012, 03:06 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

Are we talking slides, negatives, or photos of flowers that are being scanned OR are we talking about a flower being laid down on a flatbed scanner and the flower itself is being scanned? While I certainly agree that scanned slides/negs/prints are eligible I'd have my doubts about scanning the object itself as constituting photography except by the loosest of standards/definitions.....and probably NOT within the spirit of what photography is generally meant to be understood as. If you had an "open" or "no holds barred" or digital creativity category, fine. Regardless, its not an end-of-the-world issue and one that the club should determine (majority rule?) whether it does or does not fit IT'S definition or intention.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:25 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

I can't believe someone would actually do that at a camera club event. The spirit of the club is to promote photography, not the practice of getting an image anyway possible. I'd hardly call a scanner a camera, or else they would have called it a camera
Even in a more relaxed category with image manipulation, I don't think it would make the cut. But it gets back to what the rules say, and it sounds like you've got some clarifying to do.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:41 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ View Post
Are we talking slides, negatives, or photos of flowers that are being scanned OR are we talking about a flower being laid down on a flatbed scanner and the flower itself is being scanned? While I certainly agree that scanned slides/negs/prints are eligible I'd have my doubts about scanning the object itself as constituting photography...
I completely agree with the part I quoted from Russ. Not everyone in a camera club are shooting digital, so a scan of a photo they have taken would be acceptable in my opinion. With all the advances in imaging technology, I think it's important to clearly outline the expectation for submitted images to a contest when the contest is announced.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

Well, it really depends on the rules the club sets for competitions. Here are my thoughts (and remember, it's just my opinion).

1) if it is a creative images competitions and no further rules are set, then even an image taken with the scanner itself should be OK
2) if it is a general photography competition then any image taken with a camera should be allowed, including scans of negatives/slides etc.
3) if it was stipulated that it's a digital photo competition, then only pictures taken with a DSLR are allowed.

Then there is always the question whether post-processing was allowed or not, how "creative" are you allowed to get with the pictures. Also, the wording of the competition rules should be precise. If it stated "image", then it implies that you simply have to submit an image however it was produced, but if it stated "photograph", then it implies an image taken with a camera.

As a final thought, I have seen competitions of all of the above kinds. The first kind is the rarest, as it is probably the newest and most obscure art form, and it commonly includes images taken with scanners, pinhole cameras, and any kind of digital manipulation, as long as it's a digitized piece of art.
The second category is the most common, as it includes photographers of both the digital and analogue worlds. There are usually stipulations though about scan size and other specifications that need to be included so that the scan date and such can be verified.
The third category is relatively rare, but does exist. Usually it stems from the organizer's unwillingness or inability to verify scanned images' origin, and for these competitions an unaltered EXIF must exist for submitted images.

So, in the end it really depends on what rules you set up for the competition. Without knowing the details it's hard to say, and she may very well be in her right to submit her images. You may though want to think about clarifying the text for your competitions so it's explicitly clear what is and what is not allowed.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 03:40 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

My personal thought is that if the competitions are supposed to be photo contests sponsored by a camera club, then a scan of an object (as opposed to a scan of a photograph) should be disqualified. It is my personal opinion that a scan of an object is certainly a digital image, but it is not a photograph. However, if the rules are currently not clear enough, then your club is doing the right thing to vote on the definition of what constitutes a valid entry.

Would it make sense to have different categories of digital image in the competitions, with one category that can accommodate images that did not originate in a camera?

Good luck,
Richard Baker
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Old March 20th, 2012, 08:42 AM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

I appreciate all the intelligent and well thought out responses. Since there is no wording in our bylaws concerning the use of scanners we will definitely have to live with these scanned images for the rest of our competition year which doesn't end until June. What I am hoping to do is change the rule to exclude scanners from all future competitions or have these images entered into a seperate category.

My thoughts are:

We are a camera club.

A scanner is NOT a camera. Its more like a copy machine.

A scanner is more like a using steroids in sports; it creates an unfair advantage.

Thanks again for your responses everyone.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

I'm late to this discussion, so I apologize, Mike. I think what this person did is a little crummy, and I bet deep down she thinks so, too. While I agree that without explicit exclusions you need to allow the pictures, I hate the idea of specifically excluding them. What comes next? Cell phone cameras? Lycos? Web cams? What type of digital camera is allowed? What would be wrong if she was a film shooter scanning her film shots? In other words, I don't think the legalistic approach works very well. In so many instances I've been involved with, the herd usually does a much better job making its own rules--it just takes longer!
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Re: Entering Images taken with a Scanner into Competition

anjin_nav, you are not the only one late to this thread...

Bozzzzz, in your original post you stated that the member enters scanned images into 'digital competitions'. I've seen other contest where there was a category for scanned images (with not many entries). Those two things combined might mean that the member is validating the requirements. After all, the original image was not digital. But does it really mater?

Since you are a camera club not a digital camera only club I think that you should change rules of the competitions to allow a photograph (which as VTerlakyPhoto pointed out implies an image taken with a camera) to be entered.

If I were you, I would change all the future "digital" competitions to photo competitions. After all, a photo is a photo regardless of whether it was shot using digital or film camera.
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