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  #11    Top
Old May 14th, 2006, 05:02 AM
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GREAPER GREAPER is offline
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What about focus stacking? Exposure stacking?

They require more than one image, but are they excessive manipulation or just good technique?
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  #12    Top
Old May 14th, 2006, 06:42 AM
thackraya thackraya is offline
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I had thought of this. It also includes stitching panoramas. However if you take the three step definition of photography, ie gathering data about a scene, editing the data and presenting it, then you could regard the exposure stacking, focus stacking and stiching as using the camera to gather as much data about the scene as possible & is therefore permissable as a technique for doing this.
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  #13    Top
Old May 14th, 2006, 01:35 PM
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First of all, thank you Tim for the investigation. I want to apologize to the members, for making such a big deal about all of this. I did not mean to accuse anyone of cheating - I didn't think I had. I hope that we can all learn from this.
The only reason I had brought up the possible problem, is because a lot of members take the contests very seriously, and it was hard to see the injustice. In the future I will speak only to admins about a possible problem.
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  #14    Top
Old May 15th, 2006, 12:34 PM
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On some level, I think the mess was created just to bring you back, Tim!

But on a serious note, I appreciate the discussion and I although I think the contest rules & regulations are fine as they are, it doesn't mean that upgrading it is a bad idea. I have a few suggestions, not sure if they'd help or make sense or not, but I'd like to share them anyway:

Voting results: I still don't get why we are allowed to view how many votes each entry got! Before voting, if we click on "view results" we can see the number of votes for all shots (in CCC and PoTM) and I don't know why and how is that helping. In fact, I know a few members - having read their comments - choose a different photo to vote for just because the one they originally wanted is already winning - or have no chance of winning.
I think keeping it 'blind' is more fair to the voting decision (and if you think about it, it's makes it even more exciting).
And if we need to view results, maybe only after we've voted (so only members who've voted - after having voted, would get to see which entries are winning).

And who knows, maybe that's why the member who registered an X amount of fake IDs had a target to meet! (or in this case, beat!)

More votes: It seems as though the number of voters is still low - compared to the number of active members on the site. I think all members who get more obvious reminders to "go and check the contest out, and vote"! Maybe more stickies in all forums - or in the conversation corner?
I think the CCCs and PoTMs are a very exciting and important part of this corner and I wish to see it getting even more popular that it already is.

Vote weight & limits: To avoid problems with fake IDs - and fair votes - I wonder if it's a good idea to allow only certain members to vote (for example: only members with more than 100 posts are allowed to vote?)

I've also seen other websites where the votes of the 'more established members or photographers' weigh more than that of newbies. Would it make sense to have a slightly higher weight of people with high reputation (or higher ranking members) than that of others? Just a thought.

Getting in: I fully agree with what's been said that Tim should be the judge of what is 'manipulated'. I always assumed if the photo is in the final list, then it deserves votes - and is within the guidelines. Which is great - but is 'meeting the guidelines' enough for a photo to make the final CCC list? I just wonder if Tim (or his team) should short-list entries to take out shots that are not 'technically correct'. If that happens, we'll end up with a slightly shorter list of shots - all of which deserve to win and can win!

Thanks for your time - and good luck to all.
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  #15    Top
Old May 15th, 2006, 03:22 PM
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First off, I would like to thank Tim for having an open discussion about this. It is great to see that we can move on, and improve the forum, and everyone has come up with some excellent ideas and suggestions.
I think what has been said about the voting is correct. I agree with the fact that,maybe...a person should have to be a member for a certain length of time before they can vote.
As for manipulation, I think the judgement of the person entering, and Tims review of the photo before posting it is important. Since my photo was in question, I was not afraid to show my original, or any others. I think it is a matter of how much manipulation is done to the photo. Basic correction, or touch up is fine, but like Thackraya mentioned, the importing of another source to the image is not right or even creating a false image should not be allowed. It would be tough to prove, but it goes back to the honesty of the person entering the challenge.

There are times when I will deliberatly under/over expose my image , and bring out the enhancement in photoshop. I know many people who shoot in Raw....thankfully not in the raw....and the post work is necessary.
Tim and the mods can make the call if they feel a pic is over enhanced, and can contact the photographer before posting it in the contest. Just a quick suggestion.

I think no matter , this has shown the appreciation we have for this forum, and I hope it makes this even better.
Thanks all for your time. Good luck to everyone in the next Challenge.
  #16    Top
Old May 16th, 2006, 09:42 AM
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koriarose koriarose is offline
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What about when we submit the photo, we sumbit our original photo and the editted one(the one you would actual submit for the contest). Then Tim can see the before and after. Just a thought.
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  #17    Top
Old May 16th, 2006, 08:29 PM
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You may be on to something there... not sure Tim wants to mess with going thru that many more pictures tho. It would sure help matters tho if there was any questions, Tim could send them the original so there would be no problems.
  #18    Top
Old May 16th, 2006, 09:56 PM
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Fa1sal, you brought up very good points and good ideas. Very well thought out, IMO.

On the whole, I think most of the members play by the rules and follow the guidelines. Things have been running pretty smooth until this. Good job Tim and mods!

Just for the record, I don't always vote for the picture that is "the best". Something about an "average" photo might stand out just because it is different than the norm or hit a soft spot in my mind and heart. Beauty is often in the eye of the beholder.

Well, that is my two cents worth!
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  #19    Top
Old May 17th, 2006, 07:38 AM
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Dave Noel Dave Noel is offline
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Faisal has brought up some good point here.

1) No comments on the photos till the poll is closed(why do we need ot talk about it anyway)
2) Not able to see the results until you cast your vote.
3) As it is now, no names on the photos.
4) Certain number of posts in order to vote.

Just a few thoughts.
  #20    Top
Old May 17th, 2006, 08:14 AM
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jaimedep jaimedep is offline
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I agree with the above - but I think there should be something set as far as if something would happen to come up again.

Before posting anything about your concerns, contact Tim, or another forum moderator. If you want to discuss it with other forum members, take it to PM's. Although I think some healthy discussions can start from addressing concerns publically, I understand the importance of keeping it quiet. As long as people can act like adults and refrain from any name calling/finger pointing it shouldn't be an issue.

Regardless, learn from my mistake, and voice your concerns to the site admin or other mods when dealing with any of the contests or their entries.
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