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View Poll Results: This picture...
Is a keeper 11 73.33%
Isn't a keeper 2 13.33%
Isn't a picture because it's a photoshop. 2 13.33%
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  #11    Top
Old February 1st, 2005, 07:12 PM
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i voted for not a picture...but i guess what i meant is "not a photograph" although it has parts of photographs merged...once you manipulate any photo (more than contrast and such) then it no longer should be called a photo.
that's just my opion though..i mean once you photoshop it..then that's what it becomes.
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  #12    Top
Old February 1st, 2005, 07:17 PM
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leptokurtotic leptokurtotic is offline
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Darwin,

I'm really interested in how you think about this. I don't understand how anyone could not manipulate any photo-- the lens does that, for instance. What do you think about exposing two images on the same negative?

I really am interested-- not mad. Promise!
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  #13    Top
Old February 1st, 2005, 07:37 PM
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but the lens is part of the camera...it's part of the machine...i guess what i'm saying is that we should be limited to the abilities of the "machine" know what i mean?
once you take that image...and maniputlate it outiside of the camera (even double exposures done in the darkroom) then they are no longer simple photographs.
sure there are always adjustments to be made...because cameras are not perfect...they don't see the way our eyes do...but creating whole new images...(cloning, double exposures, use of gradients) then the original image..the photograph is gone.
does that make sense?
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  #14    Top
Old February 1st, 2005, 08:06 PM
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After reading all of this, I'm not sure how to respond.

I like it. Images have been altered since the beginning of the art of photography. It's nothing new, just easier to do.
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  #15    Top
Old February 1st, 2005, 11:25 PM
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I'm generally not a fan of heavily photoshopped photos. However I try to avoid having strict rules about things like this because if you base a decision of whether you like something or not on a rule instead of on it's actual appeal you cheat yourself from enjoying many things.

On this particular shot it looks to me like both original photos were pretty solid technically. The way they were combined is very interesting and creative. For this shot I really don't have a problem viewing it as a photograph. Of course maybe I just really want to believe there's a tree somewhere with a door like that built into it where a bird lord rules over his airs (because why would a bird rule over lands?).

I was tempted to hit the "Not a photo" option just because it was there... before I even looked at the picture.
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  #16    Top
Old February 2nd, 2005, 05:32 AM
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Darwin,

I think that I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that such a purist definition of what a photograph works well for people. Digital cameras are more computers than machines, and often do things like unsharp-masking automatically. If two exposures on the same negative isn't a photograph, then it gets even harder to understand what it is about the manchine part that makes it a picture.

That might make it sound like I'm totally confused about your point, but I don't think that I am. It seems to me like your point is a common sense one-- expose a negative and print it, and if you do anything else it's manipulated. I think that's a fine way for journalists to think. I think that for creative work in photography, that definition is too close to "a photo is a snapshot."
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  #17    Top
Old February 2nd, 2005, 09:58 AM
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I have a simple rule if it can be done in camera or in a traditional darkroom then it's ok.
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  #18    Top
Old February 2nd, 2005, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
I have a simple rule if it can be done in camera or in a traditional darkroom then it's ok.
I like that rule.
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  #19    Top
Old February 2nd, 2005, 10:40 AM
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OK for what? Personally, I have no problem with digitally enhancing or even manipulating photos PROVIDED that the artist discloses that fact.

On the other hand, I also feel that people who rely on Photoshop (or similar programs) to "fix" their mistakes from the camera are the people that are cheating themselves. For instance, how many times have you heard someone say "shoot in RAW and you can fix the exposure during processing"?

My feeling is that you should get it right in the camera FIRST. Know the basics of exposure, focus, and composition. Little PS work is then required (beyond sharpening and contrast adjustments (which are done in digital cameras and local processing labs anyway)).
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  #20    Top
Old February 2nd, 2005, 10:49 AM
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OK is OK

No arguements there Carl, to get the BEST especially with the narrow dynamic range of the sensor (if digital), exposure and composition in camera is paramount.
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