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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:45 AM
loic loic is offline
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the river BW composition - part 2

Here one other shot from the serie I do about the river...
Another try to capture reflection, and vegetation forms.


In this one, the evident object is a tree, but, only the reflects on the river give sense to this image.


Using digital camera BW mode (but in raw),
zoom lens fixed to 35mm


thanks to take time to comment!
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Last edited by loic; February 10th, 2011 at 09:54 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:07 AM
Vince Maidens Vince Maidens is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

Its an interesting shot that becomes abstract. I think its a lot too dark however to really make out what you're looking out without explanation. The distance in the image is makes it lose detail.

It would be better if you cropped out the open space on the left and made it become a true abstract.
  #3    Top
Old February 10th, 2011, 10:13 AM
loic loic is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

Perhaps but I had two "rules" for this serie:
- ever the same focal, fixed to 35mm equivalent
- never edit, never crop, etc...

Wanted to transpose work in argentic, this results may look as
when you look an argentic film before printing

Surely could be better with editing but wasn't my subject...

My "classical" approach: better you compose your original, better you can edit after...
Why I have try to refuse possibilities with the zoom: have to change my own position to shot,
Why I refuse edit: to have to think the best the shot I do
As in argentic...
  #4    Top
Old February 10th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Vince Maidens Vince Maidens is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

As long as you like it, it doesn't matter what others think.

For me I prefer to get it right in camera so the edits are minimal. I shoot RAW with no in camera processing so I can control the processing (and RAW shots do need them). Even converting to B&W is an edit.

I think not making an edit to an image if it would be much better with that edit is indeed old fashioned or as you put it "classical". Like I said as long as you like it, cool. Does make it difficult to provide a quality critique however, anything I can provide to help would require an edit.
  #5    Top
Old February 10th, 2011, 03:37 PM
loic loic is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

often digital photography is: think about the final result after editing also when you shoot. Less requirement for the shot, I think, than the old film camera. We know that you can edit, sometimes the shots are done with the idea of retouching.

Often with a very good digital photo retouched, I say: good picture!
is different from "good photography" which for me means: good shooting, framing, at the right time at a place with some light ... and all technical aspects of "classic" of the shooting.

I experiment often with digital other way to see and think a picture than with the silver. But I am convinced for others and very septic for me when I explore the digital world.

For this serie, I find great pleasure to work with the old way with my digita - in the case of these series of photographs (and the other thread "river").

I finally found my sensor qualities that allow me to make me as happy with a good silver film. Especially in WB, for color, I prefer Velvia 100F that my sensor. Maybe because I have to make many adjustments with Camera Raw?

Vince thank you for your comments and ideas for alterations on these pictures.
I present this series as I had thought, but then yes I am still interested to know which edition possible.

I also have ideas for editing these pictures. But first I want to apreciate the "raw" (ok the WB is an edition, but automatically on my camera so I do not care about as if I was "real" WB!)

I like this shots unretouched, and wanted to show them like this. But after I will also edit them if necessary. An example about what i am doing in argentic: I take full format first, and then once printed, I resize ...

thanks for all comments, ideas for Editing aussi!!

...
For this image, yes, my idea is it could be good to crop the top left, but I have also an other shot of this!
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  #6    Top
Old February 10th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Vince Maidens Vince Maidens is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

I think you have a good idea on how you want to work, and thats great. However I don't think there is anything different in taking a digital image. You have to get things right in camera or you may or may not get the results you want when processing the RAW. If you have blown highlights, wrong exposure etc you compromise that RAW image.

When I shoot I have an image in my head as it presents itself, if I'm far away and I take that shot I know I can fill the frame when I crop it (I know you don't like that for some reason), but I can make that image as I saw it. I still need to do the best technical job I can.

Either way you're trying to make the best image possible, if the goal is to produce the best photography or photo is your debate.

I look forward to seeing your good photography whenever that happens.
  #7    Top
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:08 AM
loic loic is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

Thanks Vince for all what you said,

also for your interest about the work process.

I think your aproach is really not far from mine - except the question of cropping, I have debate with some friends about this, there's different opinions about this, I am not still convince, but listen good arguments - this aproach give the priority to the time you take the photograph, the precise process with a case to succed to capture well what you have in mind... ( My opinion whit cropping is you don't show the real space time and evenment you have take, but an artificial recomposition from that / I know also the terms of debate)

I think it's classical way, I know some photographers which considere almost the post editing process as the most important. Some also give importance to have a good raw, to serve them editing interest: in the case of High Dynamc Range project, for example, it's of course necessary to think a lot about each technical aspects of each photograph of the serie you take, when you shoot, and not only after. Some considere more than shooting time is less important than the post-editing, and work with a great number of shots, quickly take, all settings automatic, do the selection after, and them real interest (and time of work) is the time of editing. (also, I had work in press photography younger, it was ever the approach of almost the collegues in argentic!)

Also, with the shot process, there's also the way you considere the photographic work. I think there s actually more and more confusion beetwen photography and infography, due to the constant using of softwares. I still continue to considere distinction beetwen the two activities and way of expression. It's of course subect to debate, but... I have learn photograph early and in the same time learn infography at the complete beginnings of this art, when infography was very few based on photographs...

Perhaps nostalgy, perhaps consideration for the greatests "old" photographers and their way to work (impressed by cartier bresson): I consider (for myself) only as "a good photograph" what you can see good on your film or on your raw file, considere good also almost what as happen at the instants the photograph was take (or the efforts you had to do to obtain it - case of many landscape photographers I know, trekking long time in difficult conditions for one shot), than post process wich is ever secondary. Perhaps I still considere photography whith criterias of the (quite recent) period where photographers where distinguish from printers (profession whith also great artists!)?

Last edited by loic; February 11th, 2011 at 09:15 AM.
  #8    Top
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:24 AM
loic loic is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

the other shot of the same tree and relfects:


(I like than "the sky is only the river")
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  #9    Top
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:33 AM
Vince Maidens Vince Maidens is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

Yeah your process wouldn't work for me, I shoot sports and wildlife so asking the bird to go back and stand where I want them to so I can get up closer doesn't work. You have the luxury to take all day to take a shot.

Would be interesting for you to go and try to shoot wildlife and see how you do.

I still look forward to seeing something good from you.
  #10    Top
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:38 AM
loic loic is offline
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Re: the river BW composition - part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Maidens View Post
I still look forward to seeing something good from you.
mean: never considere nothing good from my work? - or bad translation?
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